All three meetings were held in room 343 of the Baltimore Convention Centre. The podium officers were:
| Chairman: | Tim Illingworth |
| Deputy Presiding Officer: | Don Eastlake |
| Timekeeper: | Kevin Standlee (Standing in for Kathy Westhead on Thursday understudying her on Friday and Saturday.) |
| Secretary: | Pat McMurray |
| Master-at-Arms: | Robbie Bourget |
[Secretary: The debates in these minutes are not word for word accurate, but every attempt has been made to represent the sense of the arguments made. UK spelling is used throughout, except in some of the attached documents (because that's the way I (and my word processor) spell.) Names are deliberately chosen to be the informal versions. These minutes are complete and accurate to the best of my knowledge and recollection and are based on contemporary notes, transcribed to electronic form within one week of the conclusion of the meeting. Any other comments or notes I have will be marked in this fashion. Comments thus are purely informative and do not form part of the official text of this minutes.]
Minutes completed: 14th August 1998 and HTMLised in January 1999.
Pat McMurray
Business Meeting Secretary
Chairman called meeting to order at 10:05 AM. Attendance as recorded on the sign-up sheets for this meeting was 63. The meeting was reminded that Chairman decided debate times, subject to amendments from the floor.
0.1 Point of Privilege on the Rights of the Assembly, raised by Robert Sacks: "That last year's Business Meeting Secretary changed newly adopted Standing Rule 13 from "agendized" to "main" which was a substantive change (improving the wording by eliminating a hole). Substantive changes to the Standing Rules by the Secretary are prohibited by Standing Rule 23. I therefore move on a point of privilege to ratify the change."
Ruling by the Chairman of the Business Meeting:
"I rule that this point is not well taken, for the following reasons:"
"1. In the context of the WSFS Business Meeting, the change is not substantive. All main motions coming before the meeting are on the agenda and thus are agendized, whether or not they appear on the printed agenda, and any subsidiary motions appearing on the printed agenda derive their times from the main motions to which they adhere, and
"2. The Customs & Practices of WSFS allow for such changes by the Business Meeting Secretary."
Ben Yalow: Part 2 of Chairman's ruling is not well taken, but part 1 is sufficient as "Master in Our Own House" has not been ratified.
The Chairman agreed.
1.1 Mark Protection Committee
The Mark Protection Committee will report tomorrow.
The floor was opened for nominations to the Committee:
1.2 The Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee
An oral report for the Nitpicking and Flyspecking Committee was provided by Don Eastlake:
The Nitpicking and Flyspecking Committee has reported out two motions (Item 4.2 and item 5.2) & requests to continue for a further year.
Don Eastlake: MOVE that Committee be continued for a further year. This was seconded and passed.
1.3 Worldcon Runners Guide Editorial Committee
There was no report from the Worldcon Runners Guide Editorial Committee as Ross Pavlac has passed on.
Robert Sacks: MOVE that Saul Jaffe and two others of his choice be appointed to continue this work. This was seconded.
Ben Yalow: MOVE that we request Saul Jaffe to mirror the site. This was seconded.
Both motions were passed.
Kevin Standlee: MOVE that when the Preliminary Business Meeting adjourns, we adjourn in memory of Ross Pavlac. This was seconded and passed.
Bruce Pelz: Ask the meeting and committee to consider renaming the Worldcon Runners Guide after Ross Pavlac and continuing the written version.
1.4 Extending Dramatic Presentation Eligibility to Entire Seasons
This item was postponed to Main Business Meeting.
Chairman proposed that in the absence of objections from the floor each amendment would be allowed six minutes of debate.
4.1 Petition to extend Susan Matthews' Campbell Award Eligibility
[Secretary: See Appendix E for full text of petition]
John Lorentz (F): In the spirit of Section 2.3 ask the Business Meeting to extend eligibility. Stanley Schmidt [editor of Analog and sponsor of the award] and the Hugo administrator for Aussiecon Three are happy with this suggestion.
Ben Yalow (A): Believe eligibility should be extended, but that the Campbell award is outside the Business Meetings responsibility.
MOVE an amendment by substitution: The Business Meeting would commend Mr Schmidt if he extended Susan Matthews' Campbell Award eligibility.
Mark Olson (A): Our good name supports the Campbell Award, we should stand behind this.
Robert Sacks (F): Shouldn't use this to amend Constitution.
John Lorentz (A): Feel it's appropriate to ask for this extension, but we cannot demand it.
Ben Yalow: As the objections are minuted, and this request for extension does not form a precedent, ask permission to withdraw motion.
No objections to withdrawal from floor.
[Secretary: Return to main motion.]
Robert Sacks (F): Let's do the right thing.
The resolution as written was adopted by the meeting.
Susan Matthews placed on record her thanks to the Business Meeting and the Hugo Committees of Bucconeer and Aussiecon Three.
4.2 Short Titles
[Secretary: See Appendix E for full text of amendment]
Robert Sacks: Want reassurance that these changes were not substantive.
Chairman so assured.
George Flynn: Flyspecking is mis-spelt on motion.
Chairman apologised and blamed Secretary. Amendment was carried, no objection. As ratification is not necessary this amendment forms part of the WSFS Constitution.
5.1 Proposal to change the designation of the Hugo Awards from "Best" to "Most Popular"
[Secretary: See Appendix E for full text of petition]
Object to consideration.
More than two thirds were opposed to consideration, so amendment failed.
Anne Davenport: MOVE to refer to Hugo Polishing Committee.
Chairman ruled this out of order as Hugo Polishing Committee had not been continued.
5.2 Tidying Site Selection
[Secretary: See Appendix E for full text of amendment]
Chairman suggested six minutes.
Lew Wolkoff suggested seven minutes.
After some general discussion, mostly about punctuation in the text, six minutes was agreed.
5.3 No-Zone Rotation
[Secretary: See Attached for full text of amendment]
Victoria Smith: Object to consideration
Seconded, but as less than two thirds were against consideration, this objection failed.
Robert Sacks: MOVE to appoint a committee to report back to Business Meeting on antizones.
Ben Yalow (A): Antizones are even more complicated.
Alex von Thorn (A): Not yet enough public discussion.
Lew Wolkoff: Point of Inquiry: What happens to Section 3.8 of current Constitution.
Chairman: Section 3.8 will be left in place for Mark Protection Committee.
Motion to refer to Committee was defeated.
Saul Jaffe: MOVE to change ""five hundred (500)" miles" to blank.
Seconded
Bruce Pelz(A): Risks creating nonsense.
Chairman: We could create a hitlist and choose distances.
Kent Bloom (A): "Blank" could cause indirect failure if a distance cannot be agreed.
Alex von Thorn: MOVE to postpone discussion of distances until tomorrow.
Seconded.
Saul Jaffe (A): Main Business Meeting is too long.
Mark Olson (F): Distance is important.
Rick Kovalchik(A): Against preferential ballot.
Kevin Standlee (A): We should nominate distances now, elect tomorrow.
Vote was 23-20 in favour of postponing discussion of distances to Main Business Meeting on Friday.
3.2 Polishing the Hugos
Robert Sacks: MOVE to consider report of Hugo Polishing Committee at this time.
Seconded and passed.
The Chairman handed the meeting to Don Eastlake.
Tim Illingworth presented the attached report.
Tim Illingworth: MOVE amendment on Section 2.1
No objection, so passed.
Tim Illingworth: MOVE amendment on Section 2.5
No objection, so passed.
Both amendments passed and formed lesser changes to the main motion at this point.
3.4 Mark Protection Committee Clarifications
Robert Sacks raised the point that there were two typing errors in this Item as printed in the Business Passed On handout.
"Non-voting" had been struck from 1.10.1.2 and "3.6" in 1.10.1.2 should read "3.8".
[Secretary: Corrected versions are enclosed.]
6.1 Report of the 2001 Site Selection & Presentation by Winner
6.2 Question Time for Seated Worldcons
6.3 Presentation by bidders for 2002 Worldcon
The meeting adjourned at 12:00 in memory of Ross Pavlac.
Chairman called meeting to order at 10:07 AM. Attendance as recorded on the sign-up sheets for this meeting was 73.
2.1 Reports of Past Worldcons
2.1.3 Intersection (1995)
The Business Meeting agreed to deal with this item out of order. Intersection's final financial report was presented by Vince Docherty. A copy is attached.
1.1 Mark Protection Committee
Gary Feldbaum was not present to present report. Polling was opened at 10:10 and closed at 10:27. Eventually, Tim Illingworth, Kevin Standlee and Ben Yalow were elected to the Committee.
1.2 The Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee
This Item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
1.3 Worldcon Runners Guide Editorial Committee
This item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
1.4 Extending Dramatic Presentation Eligibility to Entire Seasons
This report was not presented at this time.
Robert Sacks: Point of Inquiry. What happens if report is not presented?
Chairman: The matter dies unless the Business Meeting chooses to do something.
[Secretary: See minutes for later this day.]
3.1 Master in Our Own House
[Secretary: See Appendix D for full text of amendment]
Johnny Carruthers (F): This is what we do anyway, so we should formalise it by accepting this motion.
Roger Wells (A): Robert's Rules were written because no-one could agree what Customs & Practices meant.
Robert Sacks (F): Point out the example that there is a member of WSFS present at this meeting who had difficulty voting for physical reasons and we altered our method of voting to allow for this, against Robert's Rules.
Cheryl Morgan (A): Customs and Practices must be written down.
Ben Yalow (F): The Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee are writing down Customs and Practices and past minutes are becoming more widely available.
Don Eastlake (A): The question of customary ways of interpreting Robert's shouldn't become part of the WSFS Constitution.
Robert Sacks (F): Rulings of continuing effect have no constitutional basis.
Richard Russell (A): Unhappy with phrasing. What about Customs and Practices that are not rulings?
MOVE: To amend Item 3.1 by striking the phrase "the customs and usages of WSFS (including" and ")"
Mark Olson (A): We should be explicit that the will of the assembly overrides Robert's.
18 in favour, 27 Against, motion fails.
Kent Bloom (F): This amendment warns people that we have non-standard Customs and Practices.
Kevin Standlee (A): This is an insidious amendment.
32 in favour, 19 against. This amendment to the WSFS Constitution was ratified in its original form.
3.2 Polishing the Hugos
[Secretary: See Appendix D for full text of amendment]
Ben Yalow: Point of Information, Section 3.7 is missing from Business Passed On Handout.
[Secretary: Has been added in version of BPO handout with minutes.]
There were no speakers for or against this motion.
There was no objection to ratification.
This amendment to the WSFS Constitution was ratified.
3.3 Committee Responsibility
[Secretary: See Appendix D for full text of amendment]
There were no speakers for or against this motion.
There was no objection to ratification.
This amendment to the WSFS Constitution was ratified.
3.4 Mark Protection Committee Clarifications
[Secretary: See Appendix D for full text of amendment]
There were no speakers for or against this motion.
There was no objection to ratification.
This amendment to the WSFS Constitution was ratified.
3.5 Eligibility
[Secretary: See Appendix D for full text of amendment]
There were no speakers for or against this motion.
There was no objection to ratification.
This amendment to the WSFS Constitution was ratified.
3.6 Yet More Business
[Secretary: See Appendix D for full text of amendment]
There were no speakers for or against this motion.
Vote carried many to one.
This amendment to the WSFS Constitution was ratified.
3.7 Not Just Books
[Secretary: See Appendix D for full text of amendment]
Mike Hopkins (F): The film "Apollo 13" was a non-fiction drama presentation and did not fit the current system of Hugo awards.
Ben Yalow (A): Non-fiction is a difficult category already, this amendment will not improve the situation. Instead of just comparing apples and oranges, we'll be trying to compare apples and purple.
Saul Jaffe (F): A book is a defined object, but this amendment would allow the inclusion of non-book media, such as CD roms.
Lew Wolkoff (A): Word counts are argued about so much that it seems perverse to loosen a category boundary. Also why does this only apply to non-fiction category?
Rick Kovalchik (F): CD roms relate more to non-fiction, we can always amend the other categories later.
Mark Olson (A): Support the concept but not the wording, the wording is flawed.
Don Eastlake (F): Fiction categories are based on wordcount, not media.
George Flynn (A): This is a can of worms, especially with movies.
Robert Sacks: MOVE to extend debate by six minutes. Seconded, 32 in favour, 21 against.
Motion to extend debate fails.
[Secretary: Needed 2/3rd majority.]
18 in favour, 32 against this amendment.
The amendment fails and is not ratified.
4.1 Petition to extend Susan Matthews' Campbell Award Eligibility
This Item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
4.2 Short Titles
This Item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
1.4 Extending Dramatic Presentation Eligibility to Entire Seasons
Sharon Sbarsky being present reported that the Committee on Extending Dramatic Presentation Eligibility to Entire Seasons had no report to make and did not seek continuance. This matter thus expires.
Robert Sacks: Move to thank committee.
This was seconded and passed.
5.1 Proposal to change the designation of the Hugo Awards from "Best" to "Most Popular"
This item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting, where it failed.
5.2 Tidying Site Selection
[Secretary: See Appendix E for full text of amendment]
George Flynn: Point of Information: If No-Zone Amendment passes this will have to be amended.
There were no speeches for or against.
This amendment passed many to one, and goes forward to Aussiecon Three to be considered for ratification.
[Secretary: At this time a ten minute recess was called and the meeting was again called to order at 11:05]
5.3 No-Zone Rotation
[Secretary: See Appendix E for full text of amendment]
Chairman: If motion to create a blank instead of 500 miles is passed, I will take nominations as to distance from the floor, and apply a binary search vote so the blank must be filled.
There were no objections to this proposal from the floor.
[Secretary: At this time there were three motions on the floor:
5.3 The original No-Zone Rotation Amendment
5.3.1 An amendment to replace ""five hundred (500)" miles" with a blank.
5.3.2 An amendment to change "five hundred (500)" to "Six hundred (600)".
I apologise for not having minuted who proposed the 600 mile amendment. I have done my best to make the very complicated process of dealing with this amendment clear. At this point we are out of debate time on this amendment.]
Richard Russell: MOVE distance in round number of kilometres, not miles.
Robert Sacks: Seconded.
Chairman ruled this motion out of order.
Alex von Thorn: MOVE to refer to committee. Seconded
Chairman: Ruled this undebateable as main Motion is undebatable.
Alex von Thorn: MOVE to suspend rules to withdraw motion.
Alex von Thorn: MOVE to withdraw motion
Robert Sacks: Objected.
Chairman agreed.
MOTION to make refer to committee debatable fails.
MOTION to refer to committee fails.
[Secretary: Back where we started.]
Richard Russell: Point of inquiry: Why is a motion to have measurement in kilometres out of order?
Chairman: Refer to the agenda. In the motion on the floor, "miles" forms part of the blank. Once we have a distance, motion is in order.
Vote on amendment to replace ""five hundred (500)" miles" with a blank was taken and failed, 23 in favour, 36 against.
[Secretary: The next motion on the agenda was to change "five hundred (500)" to "Six hundred (600)", but:]
Mark Olson: Want to discuss main motion.
Don Eastlake: MOVE to suspend rules and discuss amendments out of order.
As there were no objections this was passed.
Chairman ruled there would be ten minutes of debate on main motion.
Ben Yalow (F): Current system is making life very difficult in terms of finding suitable sites, often now have only one strong bid per zone. We don't now have the problem of the Worldcon potentially staying in one area as no group wants to be stuck continuously with it. The exclusion zone is to prevent local voters controlling the location.
Robert Sacks (A): This is too complicated, drawing circles on a globe and will be perversely applied.
Saul Jaffe (F): Think 500 miles is too small.
Ken Smookler (A): 1. No-one has justified the premise that rotation zone system is broken. 2. Current zone system allows cities without huge and powerful organisations to win. 3. Empty years invite people to bid.
Kent Bloom (F): Current system is broken. Finding suitable facilities and committees for a given year is very difficult. We need to be able to fill in when facilities are available. Bucconeer Labor Day problem is an example of this.
Don Timm (A): Defeats the purpose of expanding groups and interests who want to run a Worldcon - may lead to the domination of a small number of local groups.
Mark Olson: MOVE to extend debate by a further ten minutes. Passed by a 2/3rd majority.
Bruce Pelz (F): Running out of venue / committee combinations. No-Zone rotation will protect a strong bid from a stronger one.
Linda Ross-Mansfield (A): Bucconeer proves Worldcons can move away from Labor Day. This flexibility proves the system isn't broken.
Mark Olson (F): Fandom likes variety. Being plausible helps smaller bids. Overseas bids will lose their technical advantage, but fans still like voting for overseas bids.
Lew Wolkoff (A): Entered a statement from Tess Wade. [Secretary: As Lew read extracts from this statement I've added it verbatim: 1. Please explain "the decrease through the years in the number of locations that can hold a Worldcon." Huh? Before you make a statement of fact establish that fact. I know the sky is blue - I can see it. The above ,however, is not observable, not fact and does nothing but exclude many viable locations by denying them a restricted geographic area where they do not have to compete with many larger, wealthier, better known locales. (Think Winnipeg, guys.) 2. This system... Need that time to rebid, building a stronger, more unified committee, better able to handle all logistics. 3. The exclusion zone... Just stop it. This kind of b.s. diminishes our legitimacy and credibility. We are an economic force, in many areas- media, tourism, literature, entertainment, education, science. We need stability to exercise that force with tourism, convention, hotel and chamber of commerce facilities. With lots of crap thrown into a charter and lots of disorganisation because of infighting, we look dumb. If it ain't broke don't fix it.] For himself, Lew felt this was not an appropriate way to fix a broken system.
Louis Epstein (F): Exclusion zone should be smaller.
Richard Russell (A) 1. Why is there an exclusion zone at all? 2. Bucconeer date was decision of voters. 3. Facilities can't be booked one year in advance.
Michael Pins (F): Exclusion zone should prevent vote packing. Reduced bidding time is a feature not a bug.
Stephen Boucher (A): Shoestring bids such as Aussiecon Three would have difficulty with strong opposition.
Bruce Pelz (F): Committees should run for a bid, not against another bid.
Johnny Carruthers (A): Difficult decision to reverse if we're wrong.
Victoria Smith (A): Curtailing bidding to three years will diminish numbers of available venues.
Alex von Thorn (A): With six or seven bidding committees, planning will be harder.
[Secretary: The ten minutes of debate on the main motion have elapsed and we return to the motion on amending 500 to 600.]
Mark Olson: MOVE to extend debate time by 15 minutes.
Seconded and passed by 2/3rd majority.
Linda Mansfield (F): Makes more sense for non-East coast bids.
Robert Sacks (A): Large exclusion zone may reduce competition.
Mark Olson (F): Intended to prevent enormous disparity between local and distant bids.
Rick Kovalchik (A): Not considering local fans, 600 miles is too big on East coast.
Don Timm (F): Must have protection against "capturing" Worldcons. Note that the exclusion zones replace the regions.
Alex von Thorn: Point of Information. Intend to move a motion to amend 500 to 400 if this motion is defeated.
The question was moved. Debate closed on the 500 to 600 amendment, which was voted on and failed.
Alex von Thorn: MOVE to amend 500 to 400 miles.
Seconded
Seth Breidbart: MOVE to amend rules so that all motions to amend distances are undebatable.
Seconded and passed by 2/3rd majority.
Lew Wolkoff: MOVE to postpone to next year.
Seconded.
Alex von Thorn (F): Allow consensus building.
Don Timm: Want to see a map. MOVE to refer to committee.
Seconded.
John Lorentz (A): Don't want to postpone to next year.
Ben Yalow: MOVE to close debate.
Seconded and passed by 2/3rd majority.
Motion to refer to committee fails.
Mark Olson: MOVE to postpone to tomorrow.
Seconded.
Robert Sacks: Discuss situation
Lew Wolsky: Needs Map
Secretary [foolishly] volunteers to prepare map(s).
Debate is closed and motion to postpone to tomorrow passes.
[Secretary: There are now two motions pending:
5.3 The original No-Zone Rotation Amendment
5.3.1 An amendment to change "five hundred (500)" to "four hundred (400)".
5.3.2 An amendment to postpone to next year.]
1.1 Mark Protection Committee
The tellers reported the results of the election to the Mark Protection Committee. Elected were Tim Illingworth, Kevin Standlee, Ben Yalow.
6.1 Report of the 2001 Site Selection & Presentation by Winner
6.2 Question Time for Seated Worldcons
6.3 Presentation by bidders for 2002 Worldcon
Chairman called meeting to order at 10:10 AM. Attendance as recorded on the sign-up sheets for this meeting was 80. [Secretary: I am aware this does not tally with the results of later voting, which would imply 100 people were present (99 voters plus the Chairman). However if you won't sign, you won't sign.]
6.1 Report of the 2001 Site Selection & Presentation by WinnerBR> The site selection result was presented, a final copy is attached. [Secretary: SeeAppendix I] The count took 69 minutes and the Philadelphia bid was the clear winner.
Todd Dashoff, a representative of The Millennium Philcon, made a short presentation, and presented PR0. [Secretary: SeeAppendix O] They have not yet decided their representative to the Mark Protection Committee. Todd Dashoff is Chairman, other committee members have not yet been finalised.
6.2 Question Time for Seated Worldcons
Neither Aussiecon Three nor Chicon 2000 had presentations to make. As representatives of both committees are available elsewhere, question time was waived.
1.1 Mark Protection Committee
Gary Feldbaum presented the attached Mark Protection Committee minutes.
1.2 The Nitpicking & Flyspecking Committee
This Item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
1.3 Worldcon Runners Guide Editorial Committee
This item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
1.4 Extending Dramatic Presentation Eligibility to Entire Seasons
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
6.3 Presentation by bidders for 2002 Worldcon
[Secretary: Neither San Francisco nor Seattle had presentations to make. However Kevin Standlee on behalf of San Francisco and Pat Porter on behalf of Seattle answered questions from the floor. That question and answer session is summarised here.]
[Secretary: Meeting recessed for ten minutes and was called to order at 10:55.]
3.1 Master in Our Own House
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
3.2 Polishing the Hugos
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
3.3 Committee Responsibility
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
3.4 Mark Protection Committee Clarifications
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
3.5 Eligibility
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
3.6 Yet More Business
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
3.7 Not Just Books
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
4.1 Petition to extend Susan Matthews' Campbell Award Eligibility
This Item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
4.2 Short Titles
This Item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
5.1 Proposal to change the designation of the Hugo Awards from "Best" to "Most Popular"
This Item was dealt with at the Preliminary Business Meeting
5.2 Tidying Site Selection
This Item was dealt with at the Main Business Meeting
5.3 No-Zone Rotation
Chairman: There will be 30 minutes of debate time. Pending amendments are 500 to 400 miles change and to postpone to next year.
Mark Olson: MOVE to suspend rules for 15 minutes to allow open debate and get all proposals on floor.
Seconded and passed by 2/3rd majority.
[Secretary: This is Quasi-Committee of the Whole in Robert's.]
Ben Yalow: Intend to introduce amendment to the main motion: "No site should be eligible for the ballot if its selection would result in the Worldcon being held in the same continent for more than seven consecutive years."
Robert Sacks: 1. Intend to move kilometres instead of miles. 2. Opposed to Ben's motion, tampering with voters prerogative.
Rick Kovalchik: Another example why No-Zone rotation is bad.
Alex von Thorn: 400 mile limit will exclude local voters and 500 miles is too large.
Mark Olson: 1. Issue is will restriction improve situation by improving voters' choice. 2. Not bothered about 400 / 500 / 600
Don Timm: Still unhappy about six sites idea from yesterday. Could we have no city repeating within 10 / 12 / 9 year period.
Louis Epstein: Disqualify city if it had held twice within 12 years.
Mike Kennedy: Concerned with excluding cities based purely on distance - transportation is more complicated than that.
Priscilla Olson: Exclusion by distance is alleviated by No-Zone proposal. Current zones are effectively by larger distances.
Seth Breidbart: Intend to propose amendment to change distance to (2 to the 12) furlongs.
Chairman called for order, as floor chanted "Kill Seth".
Martin Easterbrook: 1. Opposed to Ben Yalow's seven year proposal - forces foreign bids. 2. We can always amend main motion later.
Linda Mansfield: This will lead to tough politics.
Lew Wolkoff: We started with an exclusion for miles, we've now added blanks for years and continents therefore I move to postpone no-zone proposal for one year.
Chairman: This will be in order once rules suspension is complete.
Johnny Carruthers: The effect on this years bidding is interesting.
Kent Bloom: In favour of this simpler system. A complicated system is not necessary, apart from local exclusion. Economics and size will control potential repetition problem.
Michael Pins: The potential control of bidding is a good feature.
Richard Russell: This is a two part process, choosing the correct wording and substituting for the current wording. Still don't believe the current system is broken.
Terry Graybill: Rather this was postponed to next year, not happy about ratification taking place at Aussiecon Three.
[Secretary: Open debate time finished.]
Chairman: Motion on floor is to postpone to next year.
Lew Wolkoff (F): Too complicated, we need time to consider.
Ben Yalow (A): Similar motions in various forms have been debated for five years, why extend argument even further.
Rick Kovalchik (F): Don't want to waste time in Australia.
Mark Olson: MOVE the question.
Seconded, Passed many to few.
Motion to postpone fails.
Don Timms: Point of Inquiry: Is it in order to vote on the main motion?
The podium staff conferred and the Parliamentarian offered: You could move the motion to adjourn sine die.
Don Timms: So MOVED
Seconded.
43 in favour, 51 against. Motion fails.
Mark Olson: Point of Inquiry: What's the current situation?
Chairman: There are ten minutes of debate remaining. During the open period there were six foreshadowed motions:
Once in 10 years
Twice in 12 years
Six years on same continent
400/500 miles
2 to the 12 furlongs
Kilometres rather than miles.
Bruce Pelz: Move question on the first.
Seconded.
Johnny Carruthers: Move question on all of them.
Seconded.
The vote was not 2/3rd the motions are not closed.
Robert Sacks: MOVE to allow two minutes per item.
Seconded and passed 2/3rd.
All motions were seconded by Mark Olson.
Once in 10 years
Don Timms (F): Number of years is greater than seven.
Xxx Stalray (A): Motion unnecessary, pattern of voting.
[Secretary: Didn't catch name and they didn't sign up.]
Robert Sacks (A): Let voters choose.
Alex von Thorn (F): Improves new rules.
John Lorentz (A): Really stupid limitation.
Lew Wolkoff (F): Once every nine years is a direct result of rotation system.
Motion fails many to one
Twice in 12 years
MOVE to extend debate to three minutes fails.
Robert Sacks (F): This is almost reasonable.
Ben Yalow (A): Almost.
Louis Epstein (F): Fair restriction, unlikely to breakdown.
Johnny Carruthers (A): Why support this similar result.
Alex von Thorn (F): Relieve concerns.
Richard Russell (A): Metropolitan areas are not well defined.
Lew Wolkoff (F): Metropolitan areas are defined by US Census.
Motion fails many to one.
Only six consecutive years in any one continent
Mark Olson (F): No practical effect. Historically sound.
Rick Kovalchik (A) This forces international bids every seven years.
Stephen Boucher (F): Dead man's switch, very practical.
Martin Easterbrook (A): Hoax bids could have a very strong card.
Linda Mansfield (A): There might not be a Worldcon if there was no eligible bid.
Motion fails, 32 in favour, 53 against.
400 / 500 miles
Richard Russell (F): 400 miles is better than 500.
Seth Breidbart (A): Brighton to Glasgow is 400 miles.
Motion fails, 27 in favour, 54 against.
2 to the 12 furlongs (512 miles)
Seth Breidbart (F): Round numbers are good.
Robert Sacks (A): Commonly used units are good.
'Zanne Labonville (A): Will require too much explanation.
Kent Bloom (A): It's fannish, but it's bloody stupid.
Motion fails many to few.
Kilometres instead of miles
Robert Sacks (F): Kilometres is the legal standard in USA.
Mark Olson (A): It's frivolous. Zones really matter in USA where everyone knows miles.
KIM Campbell (F): More international, less US-centric.
Doug Faunt: MOVE to list both kilometres and miles.
Seconded
Chairman: 500 miles is almost exactly 800 kms.
Motion adopted by unanimous consent.
[Secretary: I understand that the motion as adopted was to amend ""five hundred (500)" miles" to "five hundred (500) miles or eight hundred (800) kilometres" The difference between the two is roughly three miles or 5 kilometres., with 500 miles equal to 804.7km.]
Vote on main motion, as amended above.
Motion passed with 52 in favour, 47 against. Motion goes forward to Aussiecon Three to be considered for ratification.
Ben Yalow: MOVE to compliment all those who participated in this debate.
Seconded and passed without objection.
Seth Breidbart: Request ruling from the Chairman as to what constitutes a lesser change.
Chairman: That's Jack Herman's business, I won't comment on that.
[Secretary: Jack Herman is Chairman of next year's Business Meeting.]
Robert Sacks: MOVE to adjourn Sine Die.
Seconded and passed without objection.
Meeting was adjourned at 11:47
Business Passed On Items 3.1, 3.2 (as Amended), 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 were ratified and now form part of the WSFS Constitution.
Business Passed On Item 3.7 failed of ratification.
Proposed Constitutional Amendments 5.2 and 5.3 passed, and now go forward to Aussiecon Three to be considered for ratification.
New Business Item 4.2 also passed, and does not require ratification.
Proposed Constitutional Amendment 5.1 was defeated by Object to Consideration.
There were no standing rules changes.
The following special committees were continued:
Nitpicking and Flyspecking Committee (1.2)
Worldcon Runners' Guide Editorial Committee (1.3)
The following special committees were discharged or otherwise not continued:
Hugo Polishing Committee (3.2)
The Petition to Extend Susan Matthews' Campbell Award Eligibility was passed.